ادانة ثمانية بتهمة ازدراء الدين الاسلامي في مصر - مال منظمة العفو الدولية ومالنا؟

[Mike]

محكمة مصرية أصدرت يوم الثلاثاء 5 مارس 2002 أحكاما بالسجن على ثمانية بتهمة ازدراء الدين الاسلامي.

واوضحت المصادر ان محكمة جنح أمن الدولة طواريء في القاهرة قضت بسجن امين يوسف علي حسان وعلى مندوح سيسي ثلاث سنوات مع الاشغال الشاقة وحكمت على الستة الاخرين بالحبس عاما مع ايقاف التنفيذ.

وقال المتهمون الستة وبينهم زوجة حسان للصحفيين بعد اعلان الحكم انهم كانوا مخطئين لتبني الافكار التي روجها حسان ومنها فرض الصوم في شهر شعبان ومنع الحج الى الكعبة باعتباره من العادات الوثنية.

وكانت مصادر امنية قد ذكرت ان حسان (51 سنة) أباح الحج في اي وقت من العام مع امكانية القيام به في اي مكان ماعدا في مكة كما اباح الصلاة في اي وقت خلال اليوم دون التقيد بمواقيت معينة ودون التوجه الى القبلة.

ولا يحق للمدانين امام محاكم امن الدولة طواريء استئناف الاحكام ويسمح لهم فقط بتقديم التماس للرئيس حسني مبارك بصفته الحاكم العسكري الذي يمكن له ان يصدق على الحكم او يأمر بتخفيفه او الغائه او اعادة القضية للنظر امام دائرة قضائية اخرى.

وانتقدت منظمة العفو الدولية المحاكمة باعتبارها انتهاكا لحرية المعتقدات.

وقالت في بيان صدر قبل الحكم "يجب ان تلغي السلطات المصرية او تعيد النظر في التشريع الذي ينص بالمخالفة للمعايير الدولية على عقوبة السجن عن أعمال لا تمثل أكثر من ممارسة حق حرية التفكير والرأي والدين."

:notify:

[Faro]

المساس بحرمة الأديان من المستحيل مسواته مع حرية الرأى\ التعبير

[skamel]

let me ask all of you do you agree with the court ? or do you think it is their opinion and they have the right to express it?

may love and peace prevail on Egypt

[Mike]

سؤال غريب ومش فاهم مغزاه ؟!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[skamel]

let me ask again ...do you think that they have thr right to express their opinions or not ?

what i am trying to say do you beleive it is wrong to say what you want and beleive and then it is up to the people to follow it ? or is it totaly wrong to examine ideas and belives?

[Mike]

هل تعني التعبير عن الرأي بغض النظر عن اي ضوابط ..... قواعد ..... حدود ..... عقائد .....  لياقه .....

حريه التعبير وخلاص ؟!!!!

[skamel]

i mean expressing opinion in anyway that doesnt hurt anyone

[mizo]

الاخ الفاضل  سكاميل

من حقك ان تعتقد و تعتنق ما تراة وتقتنع بة

لكن ليس من حقك دعوة الناس الي ما تعتقد خاصة عندما يكون مخالفا للقانون

و في مصر حيث توجد النزعة الدينية التي هي من اسباب الامان فيها غير مقبول مثل هدة الافكار

[متسائل]

أولا هذا سخف و ليس رأي !!

و التعبير عنه هنا استهزاء بالمسلمين و معتقداتهم و خصوصا في مصر. و لو فتحنا الباب لتلك السخافات... مش حانخلص !

---------------------------------------

و فيما عدا ما يخص، الكلام المنزل من عند الله، فلنا الحق في مناقشة أي شيء.

أما ما أنزله الله لنا فهو أمر مسلم به تماما و هو من نواميس الطبيعة التي لا تتغير... من يناقشون؟؟ أيجادلون الله... جل و على عما يصفون.

[wahed_masry]

اللأستاذ الفاضل Skamel

هل يمكن أن تسمح السلطات الأمريكية مثلا بقيام حزب شيوعي أو حتي حزب يعلن عن رفضه للدستور الأمريكي؟

إذا أجبت بنعم ، فأرجو إيراد أمثلة

أم أننا نحتاج أن نتدارس معاً تاريخ المكارثية في أمريكا؟

إن الفرق بين الحرية والفوضي شعرة رفيعة ولكنها تراعى بكب دقة حتى في أكثر البلاد حرية

تحياتي

واحد مصري

[Mike]

i mean expressing opinion in anyway that doesnt hurt anyone

متفق معك تماماً

ورأي الثمانيه دول آلم وجرح ملايين في مصر

[skamel]

Dear brothers and sisters : before i continue talking about this subject ,i would like to record my deep respect to the Islam and the Muslims .

I am not trying to defend those 8 people,

But i am trying to discuss a simple matter here,

when jews used to live in Egypt ...there beleives was different that those of Christians ,,and now christians opinions are different than those of muslims

....so if someone come up with a new religion(and i totaly disagree with it) and in his heart that is what he beleives in ,,so what let him say it ,let him say his opinion and the

people of Egypt are not minors ..

they can make their own decision and choose the right from the wrong.

u see my point here ?

For brother wahed_masry you asked

هل يمكن أن تسمح السلطات الأمريكية مثلا بقيام حزب شيوعي أو حتي حزب يعلن عن رفضه للدستور الأمريكي؟

for your question ,i answer yes and the examples are in Australia the communist party of Australia at www.cpa.org.au and communist party of belgium at http://www.pvda.be/

Communist Party of Britain Greater London East Branch at

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/redweb/

In USA Communist Party of the Carolinas  athttp://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Senate/9744/

and  New York State Communist Party at http://www.dezines.com/nyscpusa/

and

Young Communist League USA  at http://www.yclusa.org/

and there are also different communist parties inCanada , greece, israel...etc.

But why do we have to compare ourselves to USA ?

anyway i hope i made my point clear ,as long as the idividul does not threaten or hurt anyone ,i beleive he sould be allowed to say what he want and people are adults enough to choose .

[wahed_masry]

with my full respect to your examples, the point you are discussing here is very senstive, it is the freedom of publicly disbelieve, right

1-Atheiesm was quite common among young people in 60s however never was publicly announced (by the way, even in the west)

2-Chrestianity and judism are two

religions that are respected in egypt however, thier followers are not allowed to call for them among majority of muslims (messionary is not allowed in egypt), also thier point of view about muslims is not allowed to be publicized nor muslims belief about chrestians fate is allowed (officially so far) to be announced (otherwise it will be a real trouble)

3-When you have a socity with majority of certain belief(religon), it is not allowed at all to publicize anything againest this belief.

4- I do not like to talk much about religion(not to have problematic discussions and debates with most people), but think about it like that, each and every religion (even of budism or whatever) promises its followers of paradise and claims that others will not get it, and this is the basic motive for people to follow a certain religion

5-This openion is even approved by al-azhar, anyone is allowed to believe in whatever (people are even allowed to switch from Islam to christianity or Judism) as long as there is no public call for others to do the same (to keep the socity stable).

6-Similar kind of rules are applied in most socities that consider religion as a considerably important issue (you can't for example creticize chistianity in a public broadcast in US).

7-Finally, I think we need to close this issue not to be really flirting with troubles....

regards

[skamel]

Dear Mr. wahed_masry and the brothers and sisters who read that : i agree on closing this matter if you all want to  inorder to prevent any misunderstanding or hurt each other feelings .

But i would like to to just comment some of your points

Atheiesm was quite common among young people in 60s however never was publicly announced ....!!!!! i see here denying.... and i dont know you say common but not publicly announced ,,what do you call that ,,i call it hypocracy.

3-When you have a socity with majority of certain belief(religon), it is not allowed at all to publicize anything againest this belief.

        AND

Similar kind of rules are applied in most socities that consider religion as a considerably important issue (you can't for example creticize chistianity in a public broadcast in US).

sir i totally disagree with you in the western media almost everyday you see on t.v or hear on the radio or the newspapers...etc you see opinions that completley disagree with christianity and making fun of jesus christ and /or the bible. Not that i agree with it or that i think it's right or nice to do.

but my point is if you want democracy and right of free expression of opinion and real freedom sometimes you will face people who abuse this right,    but you can't prosecute the mojority for the minorities maistakes.

Please note my deep respect to islam, muslims and their beleives along with all others religions and beleives.

Accept my greetings and profound love and honor to all the members here and to this forum as well.

[skamel]

please check this web site out ,,although the USA is christian "supposly"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/arabic/news/newsi...000/1867768.stm